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ELK - Constructed Spins / Recursions?

Stereotypus · 2025-01-06T18:07:00Z

This is a question for industry professionals within this community and/or people with basic coding knowledge. While exploring various slot providers for their unique pros and cons, I noticed something intriguing about ELK Studios that stood out to me. Initially, I couldn't pinpoint it, but as I observed their spin mechanics more closely, a pattern began to emerge. In ELK's games — particularly the base game spins with moderate wins in the range of 15x to 50x — the spins often feel blatantly constructed. Specifically, the slot seems to repeatedly use improbable mechanics during these "spending spins" to escalate the win to a predetermined size. From this, I hypothesize that ELK might be using a system where the outcome of a spin is determined first (e.g., "dead spin," "win > 20x," "win > 0.8x"), and then a scenario is recursively constructed to fit that outcome. This approach might work something like this (in simplified pseudocode): def play_spin(): determined_output = determine_output() # RNG-based if determined_output > 0: generate_win(0, determined_output) else: return deadSpin(); def generate_win(current_win, target_win): current_win += trigger_unlikely_mechanic() # Simulates reels, cascades, etc. if current_win >= target_win: return current_win else: return generate_win(current_win, target_win) While this approach is mathematically valid and no less fair than a traditional symbol-probability-based model, it gives off a "scripted" vibe when observed. Watching these mechanics unfold repeatedly feels less organic and more preordained, which can detract from the gameplay experience. My questions are: Am I wrong in my interpretation of ELK’s system? Do other providers use a similar recursive approach? Is this even the industry standard, or are there alternative models being widely used? I’d appreciate any insights or clarifications from those familiar with slot game design or coding.

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Stereotypus

(@stereotypus)

Posts: 2

Topic starter

I am addressing a question to the experts here and those with fundamental coding skills.

While checking out various slot developers and assessing their distinct advantages and disadvantages, I stumbled upon an intriguing feature of ELK Studios. At first, I couldn't quite grasp it, but the more I analyzed their spin dynamics, the more evident a pattern became.

In ELK's titles, there's a noticeable regularity where the base spins, which yield moderate victories between 15x and 50x, often appear as if they're deliberately structured. The games seem to use unlikely mechanisms during these 'spending spins' to reach a predetermined outcome.

My theory is that ELK might employ a tactic where they establish the spin result beforehand (like 'no win,' 'win over 20x,' 'win over 0.8x'), and then create a scenario to deliver that result. Conceptually, it might be based on something like this in a simple pseudocode form:

Though this system is mathematically sound and just as equitable as models based on symbol probability, it feels notably 'engineered' when you see it happen, detracting from the spontaneity of play and making it seem scripted.

My questions are:

Could my view on what ELK is doing be incorrect?
Do other slot developers utilize a similar system with recursion?
Is this approach actually standard in the industry, or are there other models widely adopted?

I'd be grateful for explanations or insights from those versed in slot game creation or programming.

Posted : 06/01/2025 7:07 pm

krisz82 and HXLohar reacted

HXLohar

(@hxlohar)

Posts: 136

I've played around 200 hours, translating to 120,000 to 140,000 spins, on ELK games, including some bonus hunts, but have yet to hit a win of 1000x or larger.
Additionally, I've identified three pairs of identical rounds, backed by video evidence:
Nitropolis 4:

Nitropolis 3:

Tropicool 2 Bonus buy:

Now, I'm gathering data for analysis, aiming for a sample of 100,000 spins with no extra bets, since I'm planning to use up my ELK budget of €1200 by mid-2025. Here's my current progress:

I've downloaded my betting history from Stake and used Chat GPT to help write and interpret a program. However, I still need to record manually all triggered bonuses and their outcomes.

Click here to reveal the following details:

Spoiler

Gameplay history

Enter filename (leave blank for sample.csv): ELK_gameplay_2024
Round count: 20760

Games played:
2,530 rounds on Katmandu X
2,112 rounds on Propaganda
1,830 rounds on Pirots 3
1,485 rounds on Cygnus 3
1,327 rounds on Cygnus 4
1,282 rounds on Buffalo Toro
1,189 rounds on Nitropolis 5
980 rounds on Cluster Kingdom
877 rounds on Pirots X
835 rounds on Avalon Gold
750 rounds on oXygen
750 rounds on Katmandu Gold
682 rounds on Cygnus 2
650 rounds on Bompers
616 rounds on Rogue Rats of Nitropolis
581 rounds on Tropicool 2
502 rounds on Nitropolis 2
500 rounds on Nitropolis 3
431 rounds on Pirots
400 rounds on Valhall Gold
251 rounds on Reindeer Royale
200 rounds on Ashoka

Wagered: 20,760.00x
Total result: -2,775.15x
Expected: -1,160.96x
Volatility: 6.10

Hit frequency: 23.96%
Win frequency (>= Cost): 10.90%
Win frequency+ (> Cost): 10.52%

Win 15x:
Freq: 281 in 20760 (1 in 73.88)
Total value: 10,041.35 (55.83% of total win)
Avg value: 35.73

Win 25x:
Freq: 152 in 20760 (1 in 136.58)
Total value: 7,591.65 (42.21% of total win)
Avg value: 49.95

Win 50x:
Freq: 36 in 20760 (1 in 576.67)
Total value: 3,594.75 (19.99% of total win)
Avg value: 99.85

Win 75x:
Freq: 18 in 20760 (1 in 1153.33)
Total value: 2,548.65 (14.17% of total win)
Avg value: 141.59

Win 100x:
Freq: 12 in 20760 (1 in 1730.00)
Total value: 2,027.90 (11.28% of total win)
Avg value: 168.99

Win 150x:
Freq: 5 in 20760 (1 in 4152.00)
Total value: 1,180.20 (6.56% of total win)
Avg value: 236.04

Win 200x:
Freq: 2 in 20760 (1 in 10380.00)
Total value: 676.30 (3.76% of total win)
Avg value: 338.15

Win 250x:
Freq: 1 in 20760 (1 in 20760.00)
Total value: 469.30 (2.61% of total win)
Avg value: 469.30

Win 300x:
Freq: 1 in 20760 (1 in 20760.00)
Total value: 469.30 (2.61% of total win)
Avg value: 469.30

Win 500x or higher: didn't happen

Bonus rounds:

Win 25.20x from Regular Bonus
Win 37.60x from Regular Bonus
Win 114.00x from Regular Bonus
Win 32.60x from Regular Bonus
Win 35.00x from Bossfight (Nitropolis5)
Win 44.00x from Regular Bonus
Win 62.35x from Regular Bonus
Win 11.60x from Regular Bonus
Win 117.30x from Regular Bonus
Win 94.05x from Regular Bonus
Win 31.20x from Regular Bonus
Win 33.60x from Regular Bonus
Win 36.35x from Regular Bonus
Secured a win of 11.00x from a Mini Bonus (Cluster Kingdom)
Win 31.45x from Regular Bonus
Win 49.55x from Regular Bonus
Win 98.55x from Regular Bonus
Win 48.70x from Regular Bonus
Win 46.15x from Regular Bonus
Win 19.20x from Regular Bonus
Win 19.50x from Regular Bonus
Win 10.10x from Regular Bonus
Win 28.95x from Regular Bonus
Win 55.95x from Regular Bonus
Win 38.55x from Regular Bonus
Win 154.15x from Regular Bonus
Win 114.20x from Regular Bonus
Win 469.30x from Super Bonus (Pirots X)
Win 62.70x from Regular Bonus
Win 56.40x from Regular Bonus
Win 19.65x from Cygnus 3 Wheel (Crashed)
Win 166.65x from Cygnus 3 Wheel
Win 18.90x from Cygnus 3 Wheel (Crashed)
Win 84.90x from Cygnus 3 Wheel
Win 23.75x from Cygnus 3 Wheel (Crashed)
Win 14.05x from Cygnus 3 Wheel (Crashed)
Win 75.50x from Cygnus 3 Wheel
Win 126.90x from Regular Bonus
Win 68.70x from Regular Bonus
Win 61.80x from Regular Bonus
Win 52.85x from Regular Bonus
Win 26.10x from Regular Bonus
Win 119.60x from Regular Bonus
Win 58.35x from Regular Bonus
Win 51.40x from Regular Bonus
Win 47.10x from Regular Bonus
Win 59.50x from Regular Bonus
Win 17.10x from Regular Bonus
Win 20.95x from Regular Bonus
Win 13.80x from Regular Bonus
Win 56.30x from Regular Bonus
Win 51.40x from Regular Bonus
Win 183.10x from Regular Bonus
Win 43.25x from Regular Bonus
Win 207.00x from Regular Bonus
Win 59.20x from Bossfight (Nitropolis5)
Win 20.15x from Bossfight (Nitropolis5)
Win 37.10x from Regular Bonus
Win 62.00x from Regular Bonus
Win 48.20x from Regular Bonus
Win 78.15x from Regular Bonus
Win 47.80x from Regular Bonus (Nitropilis 3)
Win 16.05x from Regular Bonus

Bonus freq: 63/20760 = 1 in 329.52 = 0.30%
Bonus total win: 4,026.50x (19.40% of total win)
Bonus avg win: 63.91x

Process finished with exit code 0